As you'll no doubt remember, FRLG introduced move tutors for certain moves that were TMs in RBY, but not in RSE. And despite the avalanche of tutors Platinum gave us, it's not too far-fetched to think they'd do the same with a GSC remake. And if you believe the rumors, it's coming up fast. So just for fun, let's pre-empt the actual announcement in case our hopes are dashed and they announce Trozei 2 or Pinball 3, and imagine the potential tutors they could come up with.

The following moves were TMs or HMs in GSC, but not TMs, HMs or tutors in Platinum:

- Dynamicpunch
- Headbutt
- Curse
- Zap Cannon
- Sweet Scent
- Dragonbreath
- Defense Curl*
- Nightmare

*Defense Curl was an Emerald tutor, but it'd still be new for fourth-gen Pokémon.

Not a very impressive list, but the biggest one is easily Curse. Why? Well, as you may or may not remember, Curse was UNIVERSAL in GSC. That means odds are it would remain that way if a tutor were to pop up. That gives every single Pokémon out there (other than Ghosts, much to Dusknoir's dismay) a potential setup move, though obviously Azelf and company will shun it. But there are enough Pokémon with average and below average speed that would die to get their hands on that thing...

The only two even worth a mention are Zap Cannon and Dynamicpunch, as "they're there if you ever want them" moves. Other than that... remarkably unimpressive.

Thoughts? Comments?

What would Clare give instead of Dragonbreath? Dragon Claw?

I'd add Dragonbreath to the list, just because it's there and had a bigger learnbase than Zap Cannon I think. I mean even Arcanine learned Dragonbreath. Also, it'd allow Clare's three Dragonairs to still use the move without hax (unless Dratini gets it as an egg move; dunno.)

Edit: Aaaaaand it is.

Very interesting remake wise. Move tutor wise I really hope they don't go really too crazy with it. Because with a GSC remake I wouldn't actually buy it, the curious thing about it is that I'm going to pick up the old Gold version.

In my opinion even if they did remake one of this generation, they'll keep the same core gameplay, which *am assuming* is going to be pretty stale by now. Why am getting old gold version though? nostalgia mainly, and it was my favorite game geez like eight years ago, and I think I can get into that one at least.

Unless this remake really adds something new to the old formula I *might* pick it up.

So in the end I'm keeping an eye on how it will shape up the metagame. Hopefully no more offensive leaps though. I can appreciate a shift in a metagame, but nothing drastic. So I can safely say I'm excited for what will be brought through these remakes competitively wise.

Would they keep Curse as being universal in the remake, or would the G/S/C Pokémon keep the movesets they have in D/P/P? Having Curse being available to that many Pokémon would cause a major shift in the metagame, as far as I can tell. Knowing Gamefreak, they won't care.

> Cursing Dragonite

Yessir.

Bringing Curse back would tilt the metagame away from the excessively offensive game we know now, and I for one wouldn't complain at all. Stuff dies too quickly now.

As for Dragonbreath, I'm not expecting a tutor to have any sort of effect. I mean, it's 60 power! Do you see the Ancientpower tutor being used on even a small scale? And that's taking into account the fact that special Rock, unlike special Dragon, is practically nonexistent. Everything I'd expect to know Dragonbreath already knows Dragon Pulse, so that's the end of that.

I never said it'd be an AWWW FUCK YEAH! DRAGONBREATH! type of deal, which you apparently are assuming. I said I think it'd likely be a tutor move.

Truthiness, your reasoning for wanting the original Gold makes me question your logic behind potentially snubbing a remake. The core gameplay hasn't changed at all through any of the games albeit some pretty massive mechanics alterations. People enjoy seeing the spruced up environments and being able to play an old game under the updated mechanics since then. It helped make FRLG more enjoyable, definitely.

For what it's worth, Colosseum and XD changed the core gameplay from what one was used to on the handhelds, and those games by a few definitions sucked total ass. I don't think something that has been so consistently done well needs any drastic change, and I for one will be happy doing the same old shit with a drastically improved Totodile, among other things.

Here's hoping they don't pull an FRLG and block things like Aipom evolving, because G/S/C holds the record for the largest ratio of horrendously bad pokemon to great ones.

IF Crystal is being remade, then it'll be the return of Extremespeed Dragonite.

Which, if paired with Curse, is pretty amazing.

Dragonite@Leftovers
Adamant/Impish - (insert evs)
~Curse
~Roost
~Fire Punch/Extremespeed
~Dragon Claw/Shadow Claw

I can see Fire Punch over Extremespeed just for coverage... or you'd have to go with something like Shadow Claw just to get coverage.

EDIT: I suppose you could go without Roost and just use Extremespeed in its place... although Curse needs the recovery.

[QUOTE USER="slowflake" TIME="1241467410"]Bringing Curse back would tilt the metagame away from the excessively offensive game we know now, and I for one wouldn't complain at all. Stuff dies too quickly now.[/QUOTE]

I disagree. The pokemon that effectively use Curse in given situations can be game-breaking, just like a Swords Dance sweeper cleans up in the end game. In Lapras' and Snorlax's case it can even be the end of the game right off the bat.

Be that as it may, trap-passing is the only sureshot to get the Curses in that you need, almost everyone carries and phazer or hazer just in case. It will still be the same metagame.

What will happen is a rise in TSS and Hail teams. They don't work too well now - but with the SpDef boost and universal cursing, any Rock pokemon with half decent SpDef and some all around bulkiness can whip you. Cradily can already kind of do that with Stockpile/Recover in a Sandstorm, and Curse will open it up even more.

You could potentially turn a special sweeper into a mixed sweeper with the proper curse set-up, though.

I think the defense obsessed g/s/c metagame is just what we need, because less balanced apparantly means more, remember how screwing up the UU environment single-handedly made it popular? Assuming that everything will have curse, pokemon that haven't shined in ages will have a chance. I'm drooling at sandstorm relicanth right now.

It helps that they've tried making some honest attempts at really improving a lot of neglected guys, and Relicanth is no different. I was actually surprised when I first saw its stat spread, since unlike Corsola its HP and Def are worth writing home about. Then they gave it Head Smash and Waterfall for that crummy base 90 attack and for a minute I thought it was usable.

[QUOTE USER="temprepto" TIME="1241468450"]I never said it'd be an AWWW FUCK YEAH! DRAGONBREATH! type of deal, which you apparently are assuming. I said I think it'd likely be a tutor move.

Truthiness, your reasoning for wanting the original Gold makes me question your logic behind potentially snubbing a remake. The core gameplay hasn't changed at all through any of the games albeit some pretty massive mechanics alterations. People enjoy seeing the spruced up environments and being able to play an old game under the updated mechanics since then. It helped make FRLG more enjoyable, definitely.

For what it's worth, Colosseum and XD changed the core gameplay from what one was used to on the handhelds, and those games by a few definitions sucked total ass. I don't think something that has been so consistently done well needs any drastic change, and I for one will be happy doing the same old shit with a drastically improved Totodile, among other things.

Here's hoping they don't pull an FRLG and block things like Aipom evolving, because G/S/C holds the record for the largest ratio of horrendously bad pokemon to great ones.[/QUOTE]

What I meant really was playing the older versions was really only for the nostalgia factor, I think I just worded it funny. Not a big fan of the "feel"(yeah going to describe it like that :-/) of the newer games like Diamond when I played through it. Nothing more, nothing less, I just like the graphics / music / old non meddled with gameplay. heh

Anyways cursewise, I'm going to go down a list and see what can be useful with it, but Dragonite wise. Sure it'd be an terror with Light Screen up / and or Yache would give it some surviving ooomph, but the main problem is yeah that ice weak is really going to bother you. The main issue when stopping Chomp or Mence with Ice attacks is that you got to have to qualities to really check them. Being faster so either by beating their base speed or even Mence after a DD to Ice attack them before they beat you. Then the other option is to take the brunt of the attack and nail them back. With Curse Dragonite loses the even if little speed advantage it gets and with an abundance of Punches Beams Hp Ices makes it a lil easy to revenge kill or check.

Not saying that it'll be useless but not something that'll get me too excited. Curse, I can only see a couple pokemon in the current OU that'll be really viable.

Also consider the easy access to Will-O-Wisp for a ton of things and Roost CurseNite has another headache.

Also, keep in mind that two-attack sets need to make sacrifices. I wouldn't use Fire Punch or Shadow Claw because compared to its other attacks they're fucking jokes, coverage or not. If Dragonite is going to actually establish itself, it needs to be able to at least tarnish the extremely solid thrones of things like Heatran, which a Curse set cannot do. Heatran will be able to come in on all of its moves sans Earthquake (no one will use Curse + Superpower) and HP Ice it to death.

Latias is a whole nother story.

Well I am sure everyone knows this but in the game's code you can get a pokemon that was "received from johto" My proof is that I used pokesav and that was one of the options you could have. If its true or not I have no idea. But I know that line is there in Pokesav, so its got to count for something.

It's a dummy line that hasn't got any data attached to it, so it couldn't even work.

[QUOTE USER="ongakujin" TIME="1241468496"]IF Crystal is being remade, then it'll be the return of Extremespeed Dragonite.

Which, if paired with Curse, is pretty amazing.

Dragonite@Leftovers
Adamant/Impish - (insert evs)
~Curse
~Roost
~Fire Punch/Extremespeed
~Dragon Claw/Shadow Claw

I can see Fire Punch over Extremespeed just for coverage... or you'd have to go with something like Shadow Claw just to get coverage.

EDIT: I suppose you could go without Roost and just use Extremespeed in its place... although Curse needs the recovery.[/QUOTE]

I didn't think of that. Wasn't Extremespeed Dratini like a event? I mean, you received it in Dragon's Den from the Elders >_>

Anyways... Roost would be kinda :/. I don't see a mixed set there, only a defensive-biased tank or offensive-biased tank.

Curse is ok Tier. Now a Move Tutor that teaches Curse to a shitload of pokemon, that is God Tier.

And if they put one there, it's going to HAVE to be universal. It'd be ridiculous to deny Pokémon a tutor move that they used to know before RSE wiped the slate clean.

Did Platinum give Dive back to every single thing that could use it?

Yeah, according to Serebii's attackdexes everything that could get Dive in Gen 3 could get it in Platinum. I think you'd get the same thing if you compared the FRLG tutors to the RBY TMs.