A word on Heat Wave being passed around to fliers for some reason... first, what's the logic behind it? The butterfly effect? No, not even that makes sense. Anyway, looks like Fearow lost a few points in the Normal/Flying hierarchy. Special Pidgeot might not be a totally lost cause now with Air Slash and Heat Wave, and Chatot already specialized in special attacks, so Heat Wave is a much welcome addition to that pitiful movepool. And remember, Chatot has Nasty Plot! Meanwhile, Fearow's SA is just too low to do anything with Heat Wave, and it only has Tri Attack and Hidden Power for a special movepool anyway. So now Fearow's the one who's going to be referred to as being "barely better than Farfetch'd". Ouch.

Also, thus ends my claim Honchkrow isn't good enough for BL. Heat Wave looks great on it... too bad Honchkrow is still fundamentally messed up.

Excellent news! Apparently, Shaymin-S passes in local wireless matches between two Platinum users if you talk to the woman on the right in the top floor of the Pokémon Center. It's in Wi-Fi and the normal Union Room that it doesn't work. So this pretty much seals the deal: the new forms ARE going to be on Shoddy.

According to someone on Smogon, sleep mechanics are already fundamentally different between the Japanese and American versions of D/P, let alone Japanese Platinum.

Mamoswine learns Endeavor now. Add Ice Shard and immunity to BOTH sandstorm and hail... see where I'm going? EQ + Ice Shard + Substitute + Endeavor + Salac is going to be So. Awesome. There's also Snow Cloak shenanigans possible if you pack Obamasnow.

Was reading Smogon's thread, and someone misplaced Heat Wave onto Starmie instead of Staraptor. Admit it, Heat Wave Starmie would've been hilarious.

Still related to Smogon's thread, how would Clear Body Pokés fare against Shaymin-S, since Seed Flare's added effect is worthless here?

Edit: Just remembered something: people have been whining about Gyarados not getting a physical Flying move for so long, Gamefreak reacted and gave it one. It's just... not the one everyone wanted. Not by a long shot.

Endeavor +　Ice Shard Mamoswine + Resistant to both kinds of weather (Hail + Sand) = Win. And IIRC, Mamoswine gets Endure.

Endure is universal, so no worries there. Substitute's quite viable as well, though, provided you have something spin away any entry hazards that are there beforehand.

[QUOTE]Still related to Smogon's thread, how would Clear Body Pokés fare against Shaymin-S, since Seed Flare's added effect is worthless here?[/QUOTE]

Registeel is now the best counter - Clear Body with Thunder Wave/Explosion/Curse/ Ice Punch or Iron Head
Theres still a few soft counters - Crobat, Muk, Heatran, Regice, Metagross

How are the sleep mechanics different?

Apparently, the Japanese wake up a lot faster. This seems to hold true in Platinum, from what I've seen.

Registeel, counter Sky Shaymin? Lol. And when everyone thought it was useless. That is of course, Skymin doesnt flinch the fuck out of Registeel before it has a chance to fight back.

Let this be a lesson to you.

Heiling teh Fuhrer = bad.
Not heiling teh Fuhrer = good.

[QUOTE USER="crossdragon" TIME="1221559201"]Registeel, counter Sky Shaymin? Lol. And when everyone thought it was useless. That is of course, Skymin doesnt flinch the fuck out of Registeel before it has a chance to fight back. [/QUOTE]

Choice Specs Skymin Air Slash vs MaxHP/MaxSp.Def Registeel : 9.6% - 11.5%
Choice Specs Skymin Air Slash vs MaxHP/MinSp.Def Registeel : 12.6% - 14.8%

Wow scary. Maybe I'll carry them leftovers. Remember Registeel has a 40% chance of attacking back each turn... 2HKO with ice punch and a 75%~ chance with +1 attack.

Meh. Endeavor on Mamoswine isn't that great. It can only has a base speed of 80 so it won't be outspeeding anything that matters as well as choice scarfers.

I haven't touched Platinum in a while due to Spore LOL. I want to make some kind of pokemon on that game sooo bad.

[QUOTE USER="slowflake" TIME="1221543090"]Was reading Smogon's thread, and someone misplaced Heat Wave onto Starmie instead of Staraptor. Admit it, Heat Wave Starmie would've been hilarious.[/QUOTE]

Thank god. I read Heat Wave Starmie, and was like LOLWTF? If that was true, it'd be hilarious for sure. gg Scizor.

[QUOTE USER="slowflake" TIME="1221543090"]Mamoswine learns Endeavor now. Add Ice Shard and immunity to BOTH sandstorm and hail... see where I'm going? EQ + Ice Shard + Substitute + Endeavor + Salac is going to be So. Awesome. There's also Snow Cloak shenanigans possible if you pack Obamasnow..[/QUOTE]



[QUOTE USER="slowflake" TIME="1221543090"]Edit: Just remembered something: people have been whining about Gyarados not getting a physical Flying move for so long, Gamefreak reacted and gave it one. It's just... not the one everyone wanted. Not by a long shot.[/QUOTE]

LMAO.

Wanna know how little I care about Bounce? I didn't even know it had a 30% para chance. You might see the odd Bounce Gyarados every now and then because of that... doesn't mean it's a good idea.

Also, we're seeing a first in Pokémon history: a move tutor/TM learned by a Pokémon, but NOT its evolution. Wanna know what that is? Iron Defense Metapod/Kakuna/Silcoon/Cascoon.

Edit: So apparently all tutors cost 8 shards, though the color varies. Apparently this means Snore = Sucker Punch, Twister = Outrage, and Uproar = Earth Power. Just saying.

I was wondering WTF Twister was doing there in the first place, let alone amongst Outrage. Mud Slap, Uproar and Snore are a little kinda sorta pretty really very shitty, too.

Extremespeed and some recoil moves would've made good substitutes. Hell, if Flareon got Extremespeed, Superpower and Flare Blitz, it wouldn't be a worthless fire type and an even more worthless poke in general. Sure the two moves would already be treading on Arcanine's turf, but it would finally be using that base 130 attack.

....I can't look at the thing without hating it. Seriously, this thing is the Dan Hibiki of Pokemon. How else do you learn Smog at level 57? How else does every fire type get Solarbeam except this one? I'm surprised they didn't make its new level up move Sunny Day.

After all that mistreatment though, it hasn't been shot in the back of the head yet. What will it take to do that, you ask? Another Eeveelution with base 130 attack that doesn't suck. All the stats are accounted for now, so another attack-oriented one will do all but nail the coffin shut, since it won't be another fire type.

Apparently, each Shaymin form has two exclusive move tutors: Shaymin-L has Endeavor and Earth Power, Shaymin-S has Air Cutter and Ominous Wind. If they didn't carry over to the other form I'd say it's a damage control attempt to try and balance the two forms, but as it is Shaymin-S is all "I'll take this, thank you!"

And somewhere, Rotom and Wormadam look on jealously.

Edit: The big downfall of Curse Slowbro/king was that they didn't learn Waterfall... well, say hi to the Aqua Tail move tutor! Of course, Slowking lends itself better to Curse, for the same reason Slowbro does CM better. Also, Weezing doesn't get Gunk Shot. What a bummer... especially since completely random stuff like Infernape gets it.

...wait, I created a new post? Way to look like a dumbass, man. Congratulations.

Edit (an actual one this time): Energy Ball Ninetales now has company in the "why the **** doesn't it learn it via TM" club, in the form of Taunt Kricketune. Gamefreak pulled out all the stops to make this guy interesting, by giving it Slash, Taunt, and Night Slash! Wow. I'm excited. Totally.

Maybe I'm just gasping for air here, and I hate to be one of those "if Serebii didn't say it, it ain't so" but I can't count anything out yet until we get one big concise update from one source. You get a lot of people working on one thing and there's bound to be mistakes.

Keep in mind it took four topics for Smogon to assert that people were supposed to indicate ALL moves, not just ones they personally thought were noteworthy. And they DID list Gunk Shot for Victreebel earlier. Whether or not it was verified or someone thought it was logic, I dunno.

But I'm withholding shock for now.

Wait, I'm confused. Does Sky Shaymin get the Earth Power carried over from Land Shaymin? If so fuck yes. If not, Damn.

I see no reason why not. Rotom's got particular mechanics, and I don't think they extend to Shaymin. Especially not since it can change forms on its own (namely when dusk falls).

Something I'd like to see, though, is someone trying to revert back one of the new Rotom forms to the regular one when it only knows its special attack (such as Blizzard for Rotom-F). Technically, then, it would know no moves at all. I hope Gamefreak has a way around it, else imagine the glitchfest that could occur.

One thing I should do before going to bed is see if anyone actually tested Hypnosis. Because if accuracy really is down, then how the heck is it going to be implemented into Shoddy? And what about matches between Platinum and D/P? Worst-case scenario would be one where one player uses Hypnosis on the opponent, and one DS thinks the opponent's asleep while the other one says it missed. Really, they NEVER messed with move stats mid-gen, and before D/P they rarely ever did at all (only cases I can remember off the top of my head are Petal Dance's nerf in GSC, which was cancelled in D/P, and Blizzard's nerf, also in GSC, though there probably are others).

Edit: Giratina-O has the same type of Sticky Hold effect as Arceus. Interesting. Hopefully Knock Off being SE doesn't affect the potential usefulness of that trait... too bad you're already better off keeping your Giratina as is to begin with.

Edit 2: Nope, nothing new on Hypnosis. BTW, I just remembered freezing is supposed to make Shaymin-S revert back to its regular form. Too bad this doesn't mean jack, as unless you're facing Luvdisc you'll be obliterated by any Ice move before you get the chance to be frozen.

How was Petal Dance nerfed? I know how Blizzard was nerfed, everyone should. It was broken as hell in RBY.