Apparently, the Dubious Disc is found in the Galactic base, so odds are the Reaper Cloth, Protector, Razor Fang and Upgrade are scattered across Sinnoh. Wouldn't hold my breath for the Electirizer and Magmarizer, though... thank the stars Flint and Volkner have Magmortar and Electivire for Dex completion.

Speaking of which, you get your double battle against them in the Battle Frontier.

Bad news, though: apparently, the Platinum Orb is what triggers the transformation between Giratina's forms. So even if it passes on Wi-Fi (doubtful) and/or is included in Shoddy, the item possibilities are practically nonexistent for Origin Giratina. Almost better to just stick with the regular form.

Makes sense that the levels were lowered because the Pokémon were better... Aaron's team is actually quite intimidating. What a departure from Beautifly and Dustox.

Finally, you know what I'd like to see? A video showing off the Torn World.

...I don't think it has anything to do with the perceived quality of the newer Pokes, at all. No, ShinyLanturn hit the nail right on the head.

So SkyShaymin isn't going to be usable at all. Haha. Fuck.

[QUOTE]According to slowkingsley of Serebii.net's forums, the following are the available Move Tutors:

Pastoria City
Dive, Fury Cutter, Icy Wind, Fire Punch, Thunderpunch, Ice Punch, Ominous Wind, Air Cutter, Zen Headbutt, Vacuum Wave, Trick, Knock Off, Sucker Punch

Snowpoint City
Snore, Spite, Helping Hand, Synthesis, Magnet Rise, Last Resort, Swift, Uproar

Survival Area
Mud Slap, Rollout, Superpower, Iron Head, Aqua Tail, Endeavor, Outrage, Ancientpower, Signal Beam, Gunk Shot, Twister, Seed Bomb, Iron Defense, Bounce, Heat Wave
[/QUOTE]

Lucario with Ice Punch, Salamence with Outrage, Seed Bomb for... ? Knock Off on Tentacruel damn it. Hell is breaking loose.

And uhh, There's a possibility of an Earth Power move Tutor. That's another kick in the balls.

Here's something else.

Victreebel @ Salac Berry
- Jolly 252 Atk/252 Spd/4 Def
~ Substitute
~ Swords Dance
~ Leaf Blade
~ Gunk Shot

Hahaha, You don't even need Poison Jab. >_>

....Jesus Christ! It's like they threw a bunch of high-caliber guns into a big pile and shouted "HEH HEH, GO NUTS, FELLAS!"

Here's hoping stuff like Azelf can get Superpower, making way for an all-physical set. That move is going to be whored on CB sets by anything that wants fighting but can't legitimately get Close Combat.

All we need now is a tutor with Dragon Dance and Flygon is going to say good ****ing riddance to Garchomp.

Oh god. Azelf with Superpower? No, just no. The most I can hope for is for the Move Tutors to be confirmed first, and the we'll see what Pokemon can learn what before everyone complains.

[QUOTE USER="repto" TIME="1221189931"]....Jesus Christ! It's like they threw a bunch of high-caliber guns into a big pile and shouted "HEH HEH, GO NUTS, FELLAS!"

Here's hoping stuff like Azelf can get Superpower, making way for an all-physical set. That move is going to be whored on CB sets by anything that wants fighting but can't legitimately get Close Combat.

All we need now is a tutor with Dragon Dance and Flygon is going to say good ****ing riddance to Garchomp. [/QUOTE]

lol. Also, we need an OUTRAGEOUS Flygon. Really fast.

What seems stupid about Platinum is that it is what they should have done all along. Better teams for leaders and E4 and the ability to catch the 4th gen evo's like Gliscor and Electivire should have been in DP.

fuel for a rant Slowflake? :)

Can you think of any viable mixed sweepers that can't already get Close Combat that would like Superpower for Blissey?

Let's get some Megahorn on a tutor so some neat guys like Ariados aren't as worthless. Maybe Brave Bird too. If Earth Power honestly is tutorable, that's pretty cool, though off the top of my head I can't think of anything that would kill for that move. Besides maybe mixed Lucario and Infernape.

Outrage will likely be reserved for stuff in the dragon and monster egg group, though that isn't to say most of them will get it.

So, You can get a Ponyta, on Route 207. You don't even have to wait till you get to that Daycare Place, whatshername.

So, that Giratina with Outrage and Mud-Slap really WAS from tutors.

Quick comments on some tutors:

Dive: Cool novelty on Ludicolo last gen, but I can hardly imagine it working this time around. Completely useless otherwise.

Elemental punches: Lucario and Toxicroak like, very much. As I said earlier, watch out for Scizor as well - it might get them. (No Focus Punch results from TM learnbase never changing mid-gen.)

Ominous Wind: Even if it finds its way on Pokés that don't get Shadow Ball, it's just too weak.

Ancientpower: Too weak as well, but special Rock is so weak... I can see most people stick with HP Rock, unless they really need the joker for something else.

Zen Headbutt: Worthless. All the Psychics that could need it have it. It'll probably be passed around among non-Psychics, but Psychic as an offensive type is sad nowadays.

Vacuum Wave: Depends on who gets it... then again, I'm expecting a lot of Pokés who don't have any priority move in the learnbase. If they're special-based, it could be really helpful for them.

Trick, Knock Off: What determines whether a Poké's eligible to get these or not, anyway? Are they gonna be universal? If so, this is ARMAGEDDON.

Sucker Punch: Oh. My. God. This is insane. But I want to see who gets it before commenting further.

Synthesis: I presume this is going to be universal among Grasses. Sunny Day may get a nice hike in use if that's the case.

Magnet Rise: Other than the Pokés that already have it, what can possibly use it?

Superpower: Once again, depends on the learnbase. Thing is, most things that could really use it get the superior Close Combat instead. There's Azelf though, and I really can see the pixies getting it.

Iron Head: Steel sucks offensively. Everyone who actually has a use for the move has it or Iron Tail. Pass.

Aqua Tail: If given to anything that has a tail like Iron Tail, expect nice things out of the move instead of just being Waterfall fodder like before.

Endeavor: Once again, what limits who gets it? Very novelty right now, but I'm sure there's something out there that could use it in brutal fashion, just need to figure out what.

Outrage: Pretty bad on non-Dragons, but with STAB it becomes oh so brutal. As for Dragons who didn't get it but will now: Kingdra, Flygon, Altaria, Dialga, Palkia, Giratina. (There's Lati@s too, but you need your head checked if you'd use Outrage on these.) Physical Kingdra may actually be viable now, Altaria's going to suck a little less, Flygon's back in the hunt, the uber trio has one more physical move up their sleeve, but the big winner is Salamence. You know, while we're banning dragons for being too good... well, not really, but Salamence is so going to be a major force with Chomp gone.

Signal Beam: If every special Bug didn't get Bug Buzz, this might be worthwhile... as it stands it's just looking to expand the auxiliary movepool of non-Bugs.

Gunk Shot: An obvious attempt at bringing Victreebel back to its former glory. Guess what? It worked! Other than that, it's basically Fire Blast to Poison Jab's Flamethrower.

Seed Bomb: Nice physical opportunity for Cradily, Shiftry, Parasect and the likes. Too bad Leaf Blade's a lot more common than it was last gen. Also a good auxiliary move for expanding type coverage... if any non-Grass gets it, that is.

Iron Defense: It's already just novelty on anything that gets it. If Bibarel doesn't get it (LOL at the thought), it's not gonna see much use.

Heat Wave: Needs to be given to things that don't have Flamethrower to get used. Not gonna happen. Why the **** not Flare Blitz? FLAREON NEEDS FLARE BLITZ DAMMIT. Instead it gets Lava Plume and Heat Wave. That's like a dart player throwing two darts and managing to nail his own asscheeks. WAAAAAAAN HUNDRED AYN AAAAAAAAAYTEEEEEEEE!!!

Earth Power?: EQ's whored out by non-Ground physical guys. Earth Power's less powerful, but Ground's still fantastic. Too bad special Rock's too weak to make any sort of viable special edgequaking.

End thoughts: Well, they heard our plea, and gave us more than just the punches this time around. Outrage was just uncalled for, though... I think we would've been better off without that one.

IMPORTANT EDIT: Data started coming it when it comes to the tutors: Mamoswine gets Superpower (meh), Gyarados gets Outrage (pretty good, as its Dragon killer has low base power), and Zapdos gets Heat Wave and Signal Beam! It's starting to assemble a pretty nasty special movepool... Ice Punch confirmed for Lucario. OSHI~ Also, Flareon might get Superpower. Not bad... but only because it's got no moves to begin with. Luxray gets Superpower and Magnet Rise.

Azumarill actually really likes the move tutors, I mean madly humping them like. Why?

Aqua Jet, Superpower and Ice Punch are all now legal on the same set! Fucking win. Sex it up to make it hatch knowing Aqua Jet, then simply cough up the points to teach it those two moves. Slap on Waterfall, and we've got a murderous rabbit that doesn't have to forego its type coverage for a lone good move.

Superpower won't make Flareon good, not when it takes a Curse just to negate the bad effects it'll have.

SD Vileplume is fun to play with, and it'll likely have Seed Bomb and Gunk Shot now.

Zapdos is getting ridiculous now. We know it's one of the best legendaries Game Freak, you have a dozen other starving children to feed and appreciate. What's that? Lock the basement door before Articuno gets out? Okay.

PLEASE GIVE TYRANITAR SUCKER PUNCH PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE THAT WOULD BE SO FUNNY

What the hell. Honestly. I get back home to see some massively boosted movepools, a bit overboard with the tutors.

We just got rid of Chomp, I'm making a cool new team, and bam. Looks like I'm rethinking a bunch. Oh and since Zapdos is like my favorite OU. I like Heat Wave on it. Sounds cool. Also Signal Beam makes it so Celebi gets owned by defensive Dos' now.

Holy shit dudes, this IS the end of the world! It's gonna take a lot of work to make the metagame livable again, methinks. broken pokemon just got so much more broken, and at what price?

SkyShaymin unavailable for WiFi(does this mean Rotom's out?), that's like giving someone some new $180 pants and then kicking them in the nuts with a boot covered in various condiments.

Maybe UU will become the common tier...

Seems according to Serebii, the Gym Leaders reappear in the Survival Area. It doesn't sound as though they all gather there at once.

Roark:
Aerodactyl Lv. 62, Probopass Lv. 61, Rampardos Lv. 63, Golem Lv. 61, Tyranitar Lv. 65

Gardenia:
Jumpluff Lv. 61, Cherrim Lv. 62, Bellossom Lv. 61, Torterra Lv. 63, Roserade Lv. 65

Maylene:
Hitmontop Lv. 62, Breloom Lv. 62, Medicham Lv. 63, Lucario Lv. 66, Machamp Lv. 64

Fantina:
Banette Lv. 61, Mismagius Lv. 63, Gengar Lv. 65, Drifblim Lv. 61, Dusknoir Lv. 64

Byron:
Skarmory Lv. 61, Magnezone Lv. 62, Steelix Lv. 61, Bastidon Lv. 63, Aggron Lv. 65

Candice:
Weavile Lv. 62, Abomasnow Lv. 61, Mamoswine Lv. 61, Froslass Lv. 63, Glaceon Lv. 65

Volkner:
Jolteon Lv. 61, Raichu Lv. 61, Luxray Lv. 62, Electivire Lv. 65, Lanturn Lv. 63

Hasn't seen Wake yet, thinks something has to trigger it. Apparently Stark Mountain now much more resembles a volcano, and you have some run ins with Team Galactic.

Known (new) Superpower learners:
Flareon, Golem, Donphan, Honchkrow, Armaldo, Ursaring, Luxray, Hippowdon, Mamoswine, Snorlax, Tyranitar, Blaziken, Absol, Rampardos, Dragonite

Known (new) Outrage learners:
Venusaur, Marowak, Rhyperior, Tauros, Lapras, Gyarados, Snorlax, Kingdra, Nidoking, Flygon, Salamence

Known (new) Aqua Tail learners:
Gliscor, Seviper, Quagsire, Drapion, Walrein, Lapras, Salamence, Swampert, Slowbro, Slowking, Armaldo, Rhyperior, Golduck, Tyranitar, Garchomp, Floatzel

Known (new) Heat Wave learners:
Crobat, Togekiss, Zapdos

Known (new) Seed Bomb learners:
Jumpluff, Carnivine, Shiftry, Victreebel, Vileplume, Ambipom, Snorlax, Cradily, Donphan

Known (new) Gunk Shot learners:
Infernape, Donphan, Ambipom, Snorlax, Slaking, Toxicroak

A gross number of things are already known to get Signal Beam.

Only known new Vac-Wave at the moment is Poliwrath. Meh. I kinda want Porygon-Z to get it.

Exeggutor gets Zen Headbutt, about fucking time. Ditto Swampy Aqua Tail. I'm not saying they needed them, it just made perfect sense.

There is definitely an Earth Power move tutor. Torkoal, Swampert, Garchomp, Whiscash, and a mess of other ground types may now learn it.

I've been looking over the enormous document detailing Battle Frontier pokes, and after some time and research I've been noticing some trends, that lead me to the conclusion that while this doesn't mean there aren't more recipients of these moves, these are in fact ALL of the possible encounters. Most third-stage evolutions have four possible movesets, one exception being Azumarill with only one; lesser stuff like Tropius has two movesets; the first stage forms have only one, and the incredibly worthless things like Magikarp and Caterpie have none. Of the novelties, Smeargle and Ditto are absent; Castform and Chatot have one set.

Altogether this totals to 950 encounters.

broken pokemon just got so much more broken, and at what price?

D/P essentially did the same thing with the physical/special split, and we're just fine... in fact, the only Pokémon that ended up being too strong for standard was a newcomer. But yeah, this is much more of a revolution than the Substitute tutor in FRLG and the elemental punches in Emerald.

Side note: is Nasty Plot Crobat going to be more viable with the addition of Heat Wave? We DO know Togekiss has no use for it though, as it already has Flamethrower.

[QUOTE USER="repto" TIME="1221217538"]Known (new) Superpower learners:
Flareon, Golem, Donphan, Honchkrow, Armaldo, Ursaring, Luxray, Hippowdon, Mamoswine, Snorlax, Tyranitar, Blaziken, Absol, Rampardos, Dragonite

Known (new) Outrage learners:
Venusaur, Marowak, Rhyperior, Tauros, Lapras, Gyarados, Snorlax, Kingdra, Nidoking, Flygon, Salamence

Known (new) Aqua Tail learners:
Gliscor, Seviper, Quagsire, Drapion, Walrein, Lapras, Salamence, Swampert, Slowbro, Slowking, Armaldo, Rhyperior, Golduck, Tyranitar, Garchomp, Floatzel

Known (new) Heat Wave learners:
Crobat, Togekiss, Zapdos

Known (new) Seed Bomb learners:
Jumpluff, Carnivine, Shiftry, Victreebel, Vileplume, Ambipom, Snorlax, Cradily, Donphan

Known (new) Gunk Shot learners:
Infernape, Donphan, Ambipom, Snorlax, Slaking, Toxicroak

A gross number of things are already known to get Signal Beam.

Only known new Vac-Wave at the moment is Poliwrath. Meh. I kinda want Porygon-Z to get it.

Exeggutor gets Zen Headbutt, about fucking time. Ditto Swampy Aqua Tail. I'm not saying they needed them, it just made perfect sense.

There is definitely an Earth Power move tutor. Torkoal, Swampert, Garchomp, Whiscash, and a mess of other ground types may now learn it.
[/QUOTE]

Holy fucking shit, this doesn't look good at all. CB sets coming for Dragonite.

Something tells me what they were going for with Zen Headbutt, Ancientpower, Earth Power and so on is that they wanted to cover type/category combinations that weren't already covered by TMs. Heat Wave and Aqua Tail, though... it's good that they gave this to guys without Flamethrower and Waterfall. The known Heat Wave Pokés sound really random, though, almost as if they picked them by throwing darts at a list of Pokés.

Seriously, though, it's not like stuff like Zapdos is going to end up overpowered - it's more like a catch-up job to the high OUs. The three Pokés we need to be on the lookout for, though, are Salamence, Lucario and Gyarados. There's no telling how Salamence use will climb with Garchomp gone, and adding Outrage to the mix can be really dangerous. As for Gyarados... how much would its Outrage hurt Steels who try getting in, for kicks?

Don't want to see any complaining about how this is too much, though. The best way to keep a metagame fresh is by introducing new elements in it, and since this metagame will remain unchanged for three years or so (event moves aside), it's not such a bad idea to introduce such an amount of change.

Finally, does anyone have news on Sucker Punch, Trick and Knock Off?

REALLY LATE TO THE PARTY

MY GOD SHIT'S HITTING THE FAN AND SPRAYING EVERYWHERE

I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO THINK ANYMORE, THE METAGAME IS GOING TO BE SHAKEN TO HELL AND BACK.

That being said...will my wee little Hail team still be usable in the new metagame? :D I don't suppose Hail got any superspecialawesome bonuses like Sandstorm did? (That'd probably be pushed back to next gen, if at all)