It's still a STABbed move with 120 power and 100 accuracy used for absolutely free, which by far outdoes any of Aero's other moves when it comes to neutral damage. Even SE Ice Fang is completely dwarved by Brave Bird. Unless dragons are involved, which I suppose is the point of Ice Fang among others.

Now, you know what might cause a little metagame revolution? Priority move tutors. Seeing the likes of Mach Punch and Aqua Jet being passed out like candy could be an incredible bonanza for some, and others' worst nightmare. Odds are, we won't be seeing such tutors. Probably the elemental punches, two or three moves that might be useful on one or two Pokés, and a lot of junk.

While we're thinking of cool move tutors we'll never get, I'd like Gravity to be a little more widespread. It's got useful application out the ass without building a team around it (I'm looking at you, crappy accuracy) even if it's only five turns. Dynamic Punch Thunder Jirachi is pretty fun with it.

Even better is if it's a combination with a weather effects tutor that makes Trick Room more spread too, and throws in some moves on the side like Weather Ball. Some T-tar teams would kill for a 100 power special rock move.

Speaking of Weather Ball, while Dragonite likely wouldn't have much use for it, it's about damn time they give it to Dragonair. It's got a fat freaking orb on it, and just about every Pokedex entry brings up its affiliation with the weather. They gave it Aqua Tail for lulz because it lives in the water, so why not Weather Ball?

I actually kind of want Nasty Plot to be one of the Move Tutors...I mean Swords Dance gets a TM...then why can't Nasty Plot?

Serebii posted news about the expanded Dex this morning: Froslass is #208 in the Sinnoh Dex, and Giratina is #210. That means Snorunt will be #206 and Glalie #207 (so there you have it, more Ice-types like I predicted). What would be #209 then? The obvious choice would be Rotom, but I'm not all that sure. Reading into this some more, that means the pixies will retain their places at #146 through 148, and odds are Dialga and Palkia will stay right after them, unless they aren't in the Sinnoh Dex this time around (that's something we don't know yet). Also, what are they going to do with Manaphy? Keep it at #151, or move it to #211? It would be awkward if it stayed there, since it's not obtainable in this game by normal means. Of course, it's been done in the National Dex before, but not in a regional one. Puzzling...

Wait what? Link to this update Snowflake?

Serebii's front page, of course.

http://serebii.net/index2.shtml

A buddy and I went through and it seems very feasible that all of the new D/P Pokes plus their underevolved forms (Magnemite, Magneton, etc) are added to the Sinnoh dex. Altogether this makes 49 more entries (including Rotom) which leaves 10 left. This 49 includes Eevee plus every form from previous gens.

We then went through and came up with feasible roster changes to the gym leaders and E4, both for their first round and final rounds (after the National Dex stirs things up.) We tried to incorporate the new guys while keeping it logical. Pretty interesting, though truth be told likely way the hell off knowing GameFreak.

For the lulz I'll list them here, though I won't explain anything unless asked. Also keep the "WTF is wrong with you"s to yourself as this was just done, again, for lulz. I don't expect it to have much merit. Also these were generally founded on opinions we already had of the mons. What I will explain though, is the Eevees: My friend thought it'd be cool to have all of the Eeveelutions used the first time around, and the types kind of help accomodate this. Also, because we have no idea which gym leader is getting cut and how things are changed up, we just went with what was already there. Who knows if Volkner will be champ or whatever. All we know is that someone needs to have Garchomp & Co. for dex purposes, and thought it was feasible if Cynthia could be fought outside of the Elite 4 after facing them, which would then polish the dex off. Who knows. Lastly, Gallade in the 3rd gym is because using the same levels and move consideration, a lv27 Gallade is not all too threatening. Same for a lv22 Leafeon. Anything major that wasn't covered by a gym leader or E4 would be relegated to some ace trainer on victory road. Heh.

Rock - 1st: Geodude, Nosepass, Cranidos; Final: Aerodactyl, Golem, Rampardos, Probopass, Omastar, Tyranitar

Grass - 1st: Cherubi, Turtwig, Roselia, Leafeon; Final: Roserade, Torterra, Exeggutor, Leafeon, Cacturne, Cradily

Fighting - 1st: Machoke, Gallade, Lucario; Final: Machamp, Breloom, Blaziken, Gallade, Lucario, Toxicroak

Water - 1st: Gyarados, Quagsire, Vaporeon, Floatzel; Final: Gyarados, Vaporeon, Floatzel, Quagsire, [Water/Ice], [Water/Psychic]

Ghost - 1st: Dusclops, Gengar, Drifblim, Mismagius; Final: Shedinja, Dusknoir, Spiritomb, Gengar, Driflblim, Mismagius

Steel - 1st: Bronzor, Steelix, Empoleon, Bastiodon; Final: Skarmory, Steelix, Empoleon, Bastiodon, Metagross, Forretress

Ice - 1st: Sneasel, Piloswine, Glaceon, Froslass, Abomasnow; Final: Lapras, Jynx, Weavile, Glaceon, Froslass, Abomasnow

Electric - 1st: Raichu, Luxray, Electabuzz, Jolteon, Magnezone; Final: Raichu, Ampharos, Lanturn, Jolteon, Magnezone, Electivire

Bug - 1st: Heracross, Yanmega, Gliscor, Vespiquen, Drapion; Final: Scizor, Armaldo, Heracross, Gliscor, Yanmega, Drapion

Ground - 1st: Rhydon, Whiscash, Mamoswine, Hippowdon, Rhyperior; Final: Swampert, Flygon, Claydol, Hippowdon, Mamoswine, Rhyperior

Fire - 1st: Magmar, Flareon, Rapidash, Infernape, Magmortar; Final: Houndoom, Arcanine, Camerupt, Charizard, Infernape, Magmortar

Psychic - 1st: Espeon, Medicham, Gardevoir, Porygon-Z, Bronzong; Final: Starmie, Espeon, Medicham, Gardevoir, Porygon-Z, Bronzong

Champ - 1st: Umbreon, Togekiss, Lucario, Milotic, Tangrowth, Garchomp; Final: Couldn't come up with anything

Sooo yeah. Went back to the whole mono-type thing for the most part because we had the room to work with. Friend really liked the idea of Lucian having a P-Z. As I said, stuff like Lickilicky was "lol Ace Trainer." Lucian was actually hard to come up with but in the end decided those were better than what he had. And I'm going to love seeing just how wrong we were.

Hmm, I counted 50 first time around. Let's see:

Magnemite, Magneton, Magnezone; 3
Lickitung, Lickilicky; 5
Rhyhorn, Rhydon, Rhyperior; 8
Tangela, Tangrowth; 10
Elekid, Electabuzz, Electivire; 13
Magby, Magmar, Magmortar; 16
Togepi, Togetic, Togekiss; 19
Yanma, Yanmega; 21
Eevee, Vaporeon, Jolteon, Flareon, Espeon, Umbreon, Leafeon, Glaceon; 29
Gligar, Gliscor; 31
Swinub, Piloswine, Mamoswine; 34
Porygon, Porygon2, PorygonZ; 37
Ralts, Kirlia, Gardevoir, Gallade; 41
Nosepass, Probopass; 43
Duskull, Dusclops, Dusknoir; 46
Snorunt, Glalie, Froslass; 49
Rotom; 50

Something tells me Gardevoir's the one you passed over; I almost did both times I counted.

Anyway, the addition of all those guys implies less Pokémon will be catchable by special methods (swarm, Pokéradar, etc.). For example, we already know for sure Snorunt will be found by standard means instead of by Pokéradar on the path to Snowpoint. So, what will be found by Pokéradar on the path to Snowpoint in Snorunt's place?

*shrug* That's their problem, really. And yeah, I did forget Gardevoir.

If they don't mind nixing some swarms, they could make Swinub appear there. Who knows. Or they could give you the PokeRadar early. They've got some options, I guess.

We had more trouble thinking of what the other 9 could possibly be. We couldn't come up with pairs that could relate, so we figured they'd just pick some random stuff and toss 'em in. Don't think they'd be three starters, do you? Or just three trios in general?

Yeah, I honestly have no idea. It could be that Serebii got really lucky with that guess that those 50 would be among them (if it is the case - just because Snorunt's line falls perfectly in place doesn't mean that's it for sure). Unless he knows more than he lets us on, that is. So yeah, I'm drawing a blank. Extra Fire-types? Maybe. After all, although we may get Magmortar and Flareon, the latter sucks ass, and the former will be tough to get, since I'm not expecting Magmarizers to be much more common. Magmar's not too shabby itself - it was a good UU back in the day.

Random move I really could see becoming a tutor for whatever reason: Recover. Oh, imagine the revolution it'd bring. As big as the Substitute tutor in FRLG, at least.

Oh, and I made upgraded rosters way back then, which I have archived for some weird reason. There are a lot of resemblances between ours, though mine's designed a bit differently: I kept some of the Pokés with different types for Candice and Volkner, and the E4 only has five Pokés per trainer, to mirror FRLG's rematches.

Roark: Aerodactyl 50, Golem 53, Armaldo 50, Cradily 53, Steelix 53, Rampardos 55
Gardenia: Ludicolo 50, Tangrowth 50, Cherrim 52, Torterra 52, Breloom 54, Roserade 56
Maylene: Poliwrath 54, Heracross 55, Infernape 55, Medicham 57, Machamp 57, Lucario 59
Wake: Tentacruel 55, Gyarados 57, Starmie 55, Kingdra 55, Quagsire 57, Floatzel 59
Fantina: Drifblim 57, Spiritomb 57, Froslass 55, Dusknoir 57 Gengar 58, Mismagius 60
Byron: Empoleon 55, Magnezone 56, Bronzong 57, Forretress 57 Steelix 60, Bastiodon 62
Candice: Jynx 59, Lapras 60, Mamoswine 59, Weavile 60, Medicham 61, Abomasnow 61
Volkner: Rotom 60, Raichu 61, Lanturn 60, Ambipom 61, Octillery 62, Luxray 62
Aaron: Armaldo 65, Scizor 65, Heracross 66, Yanmega 66, Drapion 69
Bertha: Swampert 67, Hippowdon 71, Cradily 67, Gliscor 68, Rhyperior 68
Flint: Ninetales 70, Infernape 73, Charizard 69, Houndoom 69, Arcanine 70
Lucian: Claydol 71, Starmie 71, Medicham 72, Bronzong 75, Alakazam 72
Cynthia: Dusknoir 73, Tyranitar 72, Garchomp 78, Metagross 72, Lucario 75, Milotic 75

[QUOTE USER="slowflake" TIME="1220860501"]Yeah, I honestly have no idea. It could be that Serebii got really lucky with that guess that those 50 would be among them (if it is the case - just because Snorunt's line falls perfectly in place doesn't mean that's it for sure). Unless he knows more than he lets us on, that is. So yeah, I'm drawing a blank. Extra Fire-types? Maybe. After all, although we may get Magmortar and Flareon, the latter sucks ass, and the former will be tough to get, since I'm not expecting Magmarizers to be much more common. Magmar's not too shabby itself - it was a good UU back in the day.

Random move I really could see becoming a tutor for whatever reason: Recover. Oh, imagine the revolution it'd bring. As big as the Substitute tutor in FRLG, at least.

Oh, and I made upgraded rosters way back then, which I have archived for some weird reason. There are a lot of resemblances between ours, though mine's designed a bit differently: I kept some of the Pokés with different types for Candice and Volkner, and the E4 only has five Pokés per trainer, to mirror FRLG's rematches.

Roark: Aerodactyl 50, Golem 53, Armaldo 50, Cradily 53, Steelix 53, Rampardos 55
Gardenia: Ludicolo 50, Tangrowth 50, Cherrim 52, Torterra 52, Breloom 54, Roserade 56
Maylene: Poliwrath 54, Heracross 55, Infernape 55, Medicham 57, Machamp 57, Lucario 59
Wake: Tentacruel 55, Gyarados 57, Starmie 55, Kingdra 55, Quagsire 57, Floatzel 59
Fantina: Drifblim 57, Spiritomb 57, Froslass 55, Dusknoir 57 Gengar 58, Mismagius 60
Byron: Empoleon 55, Magnezone 56, Bronzong 57, Forretress 57 Steelix 60, Bastiodon 62
Candice: Jynx 59, Lapras 60, Mamoswine 59, Weavile 60, Medicham 61, Abomasnow 61
Volkner: Rotom 60, Raichu 61, Lanturn 60, Ambipom 61, Octillery 62, Luxray 62
Aaron: Armaldo 65, Scizor 65, Heracross 66, Yanmega 66, Drapion 69
Bertha: Swampert 67, Hippowdon 71, Cradily 67, Gliscor 68, Rhyperior 68
Flint: Ninetales 70, Infernape 73, Charizard 69, Houndoom 69, Arcanine 70
Lucian: Claydol 71, Starmie 71, Medicham 72, Bronzong 75, Alakazam 72
Cynthia: Dusknoir 73, Tyranitar 72, Garchomp 78, Metagross 72, Lucario 75, Milotic 75[/QUOTE]

Nice.

...was quoting the entire thing just to say "nice" really effing necessary, especially considering no one else posted after him?

And Slowflake, your list is probably more likely than mine, by a lot, perhaps. I did forget what we gave Wake for the final round, however. He dumped Quaggy for Poliwrath and got himself a Kingdra and a Slowbro/king. It would've just been left at [Water/Psy] but we figured Lucian would be more likely to have a Starmie.

[QUOTE USER="repto" TIME="1220926434"]...was quoting the entire thing just to say "nice" really effing necessary, especially considering no one else posted after him?[/QUOTE]

Thinking the same thing. And even if there are several posts inbetween, it's always a good idea to slash the part you're not commenting on, like I did just now.

Now, another thought on the expanded Sinnoh Dex, specifically regarding Electivire and Magmortar. In a regional Dex, all the Pokémon should be able to be obtained with a minimum of fuss (the most extreme cases requiring trading), regardless of the method. Right now, the only way to obtain an Electirizer and a Magmarizer is through the GBA slot, and you can get the Pokémon themselves via PBR. That's all. On top of that, I checked, and GBA insertion really only works after getting the National Dex. So I really can't imagine those two and their pre-evos being in the Dex, unless they make the items easier to come by (as in, another method than GBA insertion), which would be a bad decision IMO.

On top of that, Rhyperior, Gliscor, PorygonZ (not to mention Porygon2) and Dusknoir all require items that can't be found before getting the National Dex, so they would require being obtainable sooner for these four lines to appear in the Sinnoh Dex.

With that being said, I wonder when Serebii'll get his copy? He said around the 10th, but he got D/P two days before release (which would correspond to the 11th this time around), and it could be tomorrow like nothing, too. Hoping we get some interesting news tomorrow...

I don't see a problem with making that stuff accessible, as it's just less fuss to put gamers through.

I don't see a real reason why Magmortar and Electivire ought to be extremely difficult to get. What makes them rarer than things like Tangrowth, Mamoswine, Gallade, or any of the other new evos? Those other new guys are decidedly simple to attain, so why should we have to bend over backwards to get those other two?

Nasty Plot really ought to be a tutor move. Bulk Up has it's special equivalent in Calm Mind, so why shouldn't Swords Dance? It would open up a whole lot of new and viable special sweepers. The legendary dogs could learn it (they get Calm Mind, after all), Celebi could learn it (she has Calm Mind and Swords Dance, so why not?) and maybe even some deserving things like Ampharos (though Tail Glow fits better), Alakazam, Medicham, etc. Swords Dance as a TM breathes new life into so many Pokemon. Nasty Plot should do the same.

Meh, in this day and age there are so few non-legendaries that are difficult to attain, I suppose it's nice there's at least two of them. But that's just my opinion, and I can understand how one would want them to be more accessible.

Edit: IT BEGINS! Coronis got Platinum, so the news are already beginning to come out. It's confirmed that the silhouettes are Rotom forms. The lower right one indeed was a fridge, and it gets Blizzard. I would've preferred Ice Beam, but Blizzard's not too bad. Also, you change Rotom's form by using a key item on various appliances in the Old Chateau, so it's doubtful that these are going to be event forms (unless the key item is an event item, of course). That also means it's possible that all the extra moves are available for all the forms.

Such a shame I have to go to work for the next three days, I would've loved to follow things as they happen. Oh well.

HOLY SHIT HOLY SHIT


Serebii has just posted new info on Platinum in his front page and... HOLY SHIT you have to see it by yourself.


Rotom Frost forme - Can learn Blizzard.
Rotom Aqua forme - Can learn Hydro Pump.
Rotom Fan forme - Can learn Air Slash.
Rotom Lawnmower forme - Can learn Leaf Blade.
Rotom Pyro (I gave it this name >_>) forme - Can learn Overheat.


Plus, this:

[QUOTE]* Rotom #152 (lmao)
* Gligar #153, Gliscor #154
* Nosepass #155, Probopass #156
* Ralts #157, Kirlia #158, Gardevoir #159, Gallade #160
* Lickitung #161, Lickilicky #162
* Eevee #163, Vaporeon #164, Jolteon #165, Flareon #166, Espeon #167, Umbreon #168, Leafeon #169, Glaceon #170
* Swablu #171, Altaria #172
* Togepi #173, Togetic #174, Togekiss #175
* Houndour #176, Houndoom #177
* Magnemite #178, Magneton #179, Magnezone #180
* Tangela #181, Tangrowth #182
* Yanma #183, Yanmega #184
* Tropius #185
* Rhyhorn #186, Rhydon #187, Rhyperior #188
* Duskull #189, Dusclops #190, Dusknoir #191
* Porygon #192, Porygon2 #193, Porygon-Z #194
* Scyther #195, Scizor #196
* Elekid #197, Electabuzz #198, Electivire #199
* Magby #200, Magmar #201, Magmortar #202
* Swinub #203, Piloswine #204, Mamoswine #205
* Snorunt #206, Glalie #207, Frosslass # 208
* Absol #209
* Giratina #210[/QUOTE]

Links:

Serebii's front page with LOTS of info.
Serebii and Coronis's Platinum discovery thread.


Platinum seems epic alright.


EDIT: Serebii has posted the base stats in the main site. They are:

Giratina's Origin Forme: 150 HP, 120 Atk, 100 Def, 90 Spd, 120 SpAtk, 100 SpDef
Shaymin's Sky Forme: 100 HP, 103 Atk, 75 Def, 127 Spd, 120 SpAtk, 75 SpDef
All of Rotom's new formes: 50 HP, 65 Atk, 107 Def, 86 Spd, 105 SpAtk, 107 SpDef

They seem nice to me. What about you all?

Wow, what surprises me most is that they significantly improved Rotom's stats (BST of 520, no need for an evo anymore). Defenses and SA were something it really needed, and those new moves are hella nice as well. And as I said, if you can switch between forms at will, you can get two or three of them on the same Rotom. I wonder if the typing'll change, though... keeping them all Ghost/Electric makes sense, but so does dropping the Electric type. I also wonder... why the speed drop? Keeping it the same would've made the BST 525, which is still fair.

Surprised Electivire and Magmortar are there after all.

Origin Giratina has the attacks and defenses swapped compared to the regular form. That's not bad news, considering it's slated to get Outrage. Slight bit of a shame, though, as Levitate would've been great with Another Giratina's stats.

Sky Shaymin... 120 SA is what I expected, but 127 Speed? HOLY **** THAT THING IS FAST. As I said before, watch out for pissed Smogonites.

All in all, between Shaymin and Rotom we're bound to have some newfound fun in the game, and we don't even know the first thing about move tutors yet.

Sky Forme Shaymin with 127 Speed, EQ Resistance, Seed Flare, Air Slash and Roost/Leech Seed? Do want. And it keeps it's Base 100 HP, which allows for SubSeeding. Hell yes. I already know what set I'm going to use.

Shaymin @ Leftovers
Modest - 252 HP/80 SpAtk/176 Spd
Serence Grace
- Leech Seed
- Substitute
- Air Slash
- Seed Flare

I don't know what that speed hits, but whatever. >_> 60% Flinch? Check. 80% SpDef Drop? Fucking Check.

Another set that I can see being used is Sweeper Shaymin.

Shaymin @ Life Orb/Choice Specs
Timid - 252 SpAtk/252 Spd/4 HP
Serene Grace
- Air Slash
- Seed Flare
- HP Ice
- Roost/ Psychic/ Some other useful move it might get in it's Sky Forme.

Hell yes. I see many angry Smogoneers right here.

That said, what are the chances of Shaymin being thrown into Ubers? Shaymin can now be considered on par with Celebi now, if not better. No? I mean it's faster, better SpAtk, Hell, it outspeeds Dugtrio and the Base 115s. <3 This is like Togekiss, but better.

Also, apparently, the only pokemon that get new sprites are the ones that appear in the Sinnoh Dex. Damn.

Ha-HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH!!! Who called it? Who called it?

I was right on the Rotoms all along, though not the shapes themselves. Even so. The Sinnoh Dex thing I was right on, too, but that was basically common sense.

****ing score. I like Rotom's stats and I LOVE Sky Form's stats. My AR will be all set to go once it's released stateside.

Wow. Just to put SF Shaymin's stats into perspective, look at what the actual numbers make-

HP: 404
Att: 305 ~ 335
Def 249 ~ 273
Spd 353 ~ 388
SAtt 339 ~ 372
SDef 249 ~ 273

Jesus. This thing on a +Spd nature hits 388. If it's allowed in OU Weavile will only be a soft counter to it, especially if it has the strength to off it with Seed Flare in the turn its sub is broken with Ice Shard. I really hope it gets some more nasty attacks.

Given the respectable attack stat, they either didn't want it to have great defenses or they plan on tossing it Leaf Blade, Seed Bomb, or something. Hell maybe even Extremespeed to give it another big F-You to Weavile.

While Subseeding and Air Slash looks like its forte, I am definitely going to be taking a Specs set for a spin. It has the speed and offense to be murderous.