I still say that Shaymin with a Flying typing isn't too bad, as you can now confidently counter those Grasses than come in to absorb Leech Seed with a SE STAB attack.

The Toxic Spikes / Spikes / Ground Attacks immunity isn't terrible either.

Newsflash: it's a key item that allows Shaymin to change forms. Presumably, this means the change can only be done in Platinum - not to mention, we still don't know how the Sky Form will interact with D/P. This also throws a wrench into the theory that Giratina's form would change according to the version you play.

I really don't care, I'll probably still use it anyway.

I just want Platinum to play the game!

More news. Check Serebii.

SERENE GRACE!!! That means Seed Flare now has an 80% chance of lowering SD. It also gets Air Slash (with the same fun 60% flinch as Togekiss), and a stat spread more focused on Speed and SA (though Serebii wouldn't reveal what it is exactly). They really pulled out all the stops to try and make Shaymin usable, it seems.

As for Giratina, the Levitate rumors turned out to be true, which is good news. According to Serebii, the Origin form is usable only in the Torn World, but he makes it sound like there's a method to use it elsewhere.

Woah, Serene Grace is amazing for this thing. No paralyzing move, but with supposedly higher speed, will it really need it?

Woo! I sorta nailed it with Air Slash! I can see it now. Shaymin's new form is going to be like a better/weaker Togekiss probably. Depending on how you view it. Shaymin will probably have better stats while Togekiss definetely has a better typing. This probably means Shaymin will get Roost as well.

I don't like the comparisons being made between the two. Togekiss will obviously play a lot differently. NP/Roost/Air Slash/Aura Sphere obviously plays as a bulky sweeper. However, it seems that we will be a lot less bulky in comparison.

At the moment, the set I see coming out of this is Sub/Seed Flare/Air Slash/Leech Seed. Leech Seed with Air Slash can stall out, and can't hit grasses coming in. Seed Flare is such an overall solid move that is a really destructive force. However, I'm really hoping that this retains 100 HP, so we can stall out things with that use things like Night shade ans seismic toss.

If Shaymin gets Roost, it'll kinda be a waste with presumably lowered defenses, and it won't help the Land form so much since the lone addition of Air Slash won't pull it out of the garbage can. No, what WILL happen is that Jumpluff and Sceptile will be phased out of use with the advent of this awesome new subseeder. Well, maybe not Sceptile all that much since it can do something else, but it will effectively kill Jumpluff. Same typing, better stats, much better ability (Jumpluff never having any room for Sunny Day and all) and Seed Flare and Air Slash are just so much more compelling than Sleep Powder.

No, what STILL needs Roost is Giratina. And given the amount of information we have on hand, I think we pretty much know all there is to know, and it'll still have to make due with Rest. Levitate is very nice, but it's not what it needed to become the definite uber wall.

As for Sky Shaymin's stat spread, I'm sort of expecting 120 in SA and speed, and 90 everywhere else.

Well, if they spread the stats like that...that would be so uncreative.

I'm guessing that the stat spread would look like this.

HP: 100
Atk: 80
Def: 90
Speed: 125
SpAtk: 120
SpDef: 90

Heck, 126 Speed might be thrown in there just to outspeed Weavile >_>. If they're gonna focus on Speed and SpAtk, they might as well let it be able to compete with the fastest Pokemon that's not Legendary or Ninjask.

Your stats add up to 605 there >_>

Anyway, 100 everywhere is even more uncreative, so that's why I'm not expecting anything complex here.

Well, I was wrong about their changing the base stats, so it seems.

Here's hoping it gets more than Air Slash, Seed Flare and Subseeding, because while I'm not against the set a high speed, high SA spread just screams offensively oriented, and it'd be fun to play around with Specs and stuff.

While it's not Natural Cure + Calm Mind + Recover, I have the feeling this thing might get to be as annoying as Celebi was in RSE.

You said as well that just picking up Air Slash wouldn't make it any more usable. Funny how a simple ability change can change everything. I'm not expecting any more additions though, so if you want to play the Specs game you'll be stuck with even less variety than Sceptile (but you'll have dual STAB on great moves and presumably better survivability).

Anyway, I wonder if they'd have made both forms so different if Land Shaymin was usable from the get-go. I mean, look at all the event legendaries. Shaymin aside, Jirachi's arguably the worst of the bunch, and it's still fantastic.

Jirachi's not the worst of the 600 fairies. Hell, it makes Celebi cry with Serene Grace >_>

But Serene Grace on Shaymin with Air Slash and Seed Flare, STAB on both moves and a SubSeed set will probably become hell on earth if no Scarf Pokémon is around (looks at Gengar)

Yeah, it's fairly obvious it's going to be bumped up to OU... I'm curious as to just how overused it's going to be. Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if it ended up #1 in October just because so many people will want to give it a spin all at once, but after that, then what?

Gotta disagree on Jirachi, though. More because Celebi is just that awesome than anything else. I mean, it's top 10 material now, and there's got to be a good reason for that.

Edit: So I just remembered the name of the item that transforms Shaymin, and either it's a coincidence, or it's related to ice somehow. Ice Beam added to the movepool, maybe?

I was just pulling stats (numbers) out of the air...forgot that it's suppose to add up to 600...lol.

I'll surely be using it, heck I ran a SubSeed SD Sceptile before >_>

Yeah, as I said, as annoying as Celebi was in RSE.. it certainly looks like it has the potential. I mean granted, Spore and Poison Heal were a big part of it, but look at how aggravating Breloom was. Air Slash's frequent flinching will certainly add to that, especially if it packs a wallop to boot.

The BST means everything at the moment now. All it takes is speed under base 115 to put serious dread of this thing to rest. I wouldn't count on GameFreak making any intentional boosts/limits on stats pertaining to how it'd directly tie in with things that would otherwise wreck it, like Weavile.. We haven't seen much evidence of that in the past. It's already asking a lot that they give their creations moves with purpose. When the crummy G/S/C pokes got their evolutions/moves/traits/came out the better from the split/etc were you thinking "AWESOME" or "IT'S ABOUT DAMN TIME."? Or both, heh. Whichever, odds are you were more concerned with something not sucking so bad competitively than "Cool, Feraligatr gets Dragon Dance."

I can actually see specs skyman with seed flare, air slash, psychic/ice beam (definately if it's possible), and hp ground/psychic (if it gets ice beam)/ roost being pretty good. 

A grass/flying with Ice Beam. Very odd, yet for this thing it'd only help it immensely. Takes away what protection Dragonite had from it, and depending on its speed and spatt it might deal with Crobat similarly.

I dunno that they'd give a move like that to a type that's 4x weak to it now, at this point. In R/B they couldn't have known there'd be a sequel and were bulking things up on TMs just for the sake of making them more widely usable, which I think is the only reason we had things like Thunderbolt Rhyhorn and Ice Beam Dragonite. They did that to Rayquaza, sure, but it gets a bye for being an uber, which they naturally (usually) give enormous movepools.

If this Shaymin is supposed to be more of a wintry-sky thing though, you know, flying amongst blizzards and all that, I guess it's feasible. And I kinda want it to have Ice Beam anyway. This key item better be accessible without an event so I can hack a Shaymin and port it over from Diamond.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if it got Present. Reindeer, right?

That's a good point... what triggers the Floaroma NPC giving you Glacidia's Flower, anyway? It would be very odd for it to be given to you without you having a Shaymin, so I'm thinking maybe you have to show yours to the NPC.

Edit: So I went and made a list of Pokémon having their own personal worst nightmares in their movepools, just for kicks.

- Rock Slide Charizard
- Aerial Ace Parasect
- Thunderbolt Gyarados
- Giga Drain Kabutops
- Ancientpower Articuno
- Ancientpower Moltres
- Ice Beam / Ice Punch Dragonite
- Aerial Ace Heracross
- Earthquake Magcargo
- Focus Punch / Brick Break / Focus Blast Tyranitar
- Ancientpower Ho-Oh
- Silver Wind / U-Turn Celebi
- Shock Wave Pelipper
- Focus Punch / Earthquake / Brick Break / Focus Blast Aggron
- Ice Beam Altaria
- Ice Beam Rayquaza
- Earthquake / Rock Smash Bastiodon
- Power Gem Vespiquen
- Surf Rhyperior
- Ancientpower Yanmega
- Ice Fang Gliscor
- Earth Power / Earthquake / Rock Smash Probopass
- Earth Power / Earthquake Heatran

So basically, there are very few of them from RBY, much less than any other generation actually. The only things among these you could do back then were Thunderbolt Gyarados, Surf Rhydon, Ice Beam Dragonite and, well, Absorb Kabutops. For the rest, it's all GSC and later (Charizard picked up Rock Slide in GSC).

Edit from July 18: So as it turns out, Glacidia's Flower will only work on the Shaymin obtained from the movie event. Whether this means it's only this one particular event or every Shaymin event in the future remains to be seen, but let's have a big round of applause for the folks who exploited the E4 glitch in early Japanese releases, since they're stuck with the completely useless version of Shaymin vitam aeternam. Oh, and it not working while frozen seems to reinforce my intuition that it's related to ice.

Edit from August 1st: Snow on route 202... wow, Sinnoh's really freezing over hardcore. It's just little patches, but still... Eterna made sense, since it's pretty far up to the north (the path to Snowpoint notwithstanding), but route 202 is way down south! It also seems we'll be having a little shake-up as to what's found where... you'll remember Phanpy and Marill being available extremely early in Crystal and Emerald respectively, but, um, Croagunk in the path to Snowpoint? Well, it's now found outside the Safari Zone, which is good, but that's not exactly what I had in mind. I was hoping for some sort of Sinnoh Dex overhaul, since not only is Giratina likely to be in it this time around, but if Sinnoh's freezing over we need more Ice-types than just Sneasel and Snover in it.

Edit from August 7th: Sky Shaymin learns Leaf Storm. I care... not. Seed Flare is so goddamned brutal already, I'm not going to give up an 80% chance of lowering the enemy's SD in exchange for 20 power, 5 accuracy and a huge SA drop. Even if Leaf Storm didn't drop SA it'd be a tough call for me.